This week we eat blintzes then we can have zebra again.
One mid-summer week, Hasidim do not eat meat, chicken, or derivatives. But why not follow a chronological order?
Once upon a time, in a far away land, a white-and-blue-marble structure stretched tall on the summit of Temple Mount. This most cherished shrine in Judea was built by its most despised ruler, Herod. The temple was the last fort defended by righteous and wicked alike, and the temple was the site where the blood of the best of Judea was spilled in a bitter war; a war waged against the most formidable empire, a hopeless war destined for defeat from its onset, a war fought with heroism to preserve the values of Judea, a war fought with loyalty to honor His holy name, and a war fought in rebellion against the fierce opposition from Torah leaders.
Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered, Jerusalem obliterated, and the temple incinerated. Hence forth, the situation only deteriorated for Jews living in the Holy Land. The Romans destructed more cities, banned the study of Torah and the observation of the commandments, and brutally executed ten of the greatest sages. With every passing decade conditions got worse and the population dwindled, until only a handful remained in Judea. From that time on, Jews have had no official homeland, and were constantly expelled to new places, while leaving the old places drenched in blood and tears.
Although the Torah leaders detested the Romans and labeled them the Wicked Kingdom, and although Rabbi Simon almost paid with his life for making accusation as harsh as stating the underlying reason why the Romans built bridges is to collect tolls, the pious sages did not blame Rome for their troubles, but the sins of Judea.
It all started when some schlimazel dialed the wrong number, but the mistakenly called party insisted on striking up a conversation. When the caller hung up on him, he reported to the police who opened an investigation. The prosecution worked on a strategy to put the community to a test on a hot-button issue. The board decided to act politically correct, but one holier-than-thou Halachaist convinced the jury to stick to its principles. The moral of the story is that Jews should not sponsor free hatred and should never ever dial a wrong number.
In mourning of those horrific events, the ninth day of the Hebrew lunar-month Av is declared a fast, and the week leading to that day is declared a lamentation. One way specified by Halacha as expressing grief is a meatless diet. In my opinion, the notion that a meaty meal is celebratory is outdated, and the denial of a nutritious-chicken dinner for children is fanatic.
posted by Renaissance at 9:05 PM on Aug 5, 2008
gevezener illuy said...
but whats the picture?
August 6, 2008 9:40 AM
jewish philosopher said...
A low calorie veggie diet probably won't hurt for one week. ;-)
August 6, 2008 11:29 AM
Hoezentragerin said...
Renaissance,
Why do I get the impression that you copied and pasted this post out of King James version of the bible? I'm just not sure if it's from Mathews, Luke, or John? :)
August 6, 2008 1:49 PM
velvel chusid said...
Nice post. Reading the eye witness account of Josephus on the Jewish uprising against the Romans we learn that the events leading up to the destruction of the Jewish land were a combination of Jewish zealotry, Jews who would rather die than seeing the Temple fall into roman hands. Coupled with a lack of leadership, bands of thugs took matters in their own hands, while the responsible leaders who warned that the uprising has no chance were ignored or killed.
Josephus speculates that if Chananya the Cohen Godel would not have been brutally killed by Jewish gangstars the destruction would have been prevented.
I think today we still face the same dangers Zealotry and lack of responsible moderate leaders. So when we sit on the floor and mourn I think we can mourn the continuous never ended destruction.
August 6, 2008 1:54 PM
shlomohamelech said...
Is this about Hisdism?
August 6, 2008 2:28 PM
Renaissance said...
GI,
“But what’s the picture?”
It's not a picture; it's a cartoon. And to state the obvious, it depicts a lion giving the menu to its cubs.
HT,
"Why do I get the impression that you copied and pasted this post out of King James’ version of the bible? I'm just not sure if it's from Mathew, Luke, or John?”
You are unsure what book, but sure that it’s King James’ translation.
Velvel,
“Nice post”
Thanks; you're the only one who afforded that.
“Reading the eye witness account of Josephus…”
Flavius Josephus was more naïve than the average unwashed-medieval serf to believe in, and to record about, all the mythological non-sense the ancients attributed to Alexander the Great. What makes this person so super-credulous anyway? Was he awarded a Pulitzer? I will take his account of the factual events, but disregard the analytical cause and effect. Clearly, he had an agenda, and certainly he was a biased-subjective journalist.
“Jews who would rather die than seeing the Temple fall into roman hands”
So the Jihad was a consequence of the belief that a victorious Rome will burn the temple? This is not how Josephus tells the story; he claims that Titus had no choice but bring the temple down as the warriors fortified there.
“Would not have been brutally killed by Jewish gangsters the destruction would have been prevented.”
So again it was the Jews at fault. Rome was the legitimate occupying force who had the absolute right to oppress Judea as it pleased with vicious rulers and intolerable taxes. Just like the Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum who put the guilt of the holocaust squarely on the Zionists.
“Today we still face… lack of responsible moderate leaders.”
Who needs leaders anyway? I don’t want a leader of any kind. What am I? Conscripted in the force? For God’s sake, I’m my own leader.
King Solomon,
This is my blog, and here I’ll decide on what topic to post and what position to take. If you feel the contents and tone of this post doesn’t fit in the motive of this blog, then read my introduction.
August 6, 2008 10:49 PM
velvel chusid said...
Let me clerify, and it's "Inune D'yoma"
"Flavius Josephus was more naïve than the average unwashed-medieval serf to believe in, and to record about, all the mythological non-sense the ancients attributed to Alexander the Great"
Josephus' accounts were proven to be remarkably accurate by historians and archaeologists.
In his book The Jewish war he comes across as far from naive. But shrewd and sly. I cant recall any nonsense in the book. your qutes on Alexander is not there.
What makes this person so super-credulous anyway? Was he awarded a Pulitzer? I will take his account of the factual events, but disregard the analytical cause and effect. Clearly, he had an agenda, and certainly he was a biased-subjective journalist."
He was born and raised in Jerusalem and he was General at Yudfas who held on an heroic defence against the Roman machine for 47 days. He was a true patriot. True he was an elitist out of touch with the sufferings of the poor population. But his blaming the war on irresponsible hot heads who fantasized of beating the Roman army is a legitimate one. This was the view of the senior leadership on Jerusalem at the time, even not from the Perushim and we all know R' Yochnen ben Zakai's position.
"Jews who would rather die than seeing the Temple fall into roman hands"
So the Jihad was a consequence of the belief that a victorious Rome will burn the temple? This is not how Josephus tells the story; he claims that Titus had no choice but bring the temple down as the warriors fortified there.
Again you need to read him. When the city was surrounded and there was no chance of winning the battle, rather then surrender and save the city the war turned into a Jihadic frenzy of let us rather die than seeing the temple into strangers hands. Josephus claims the actual burning of the temple was a mistake of an irresponsible solder Titus would rather leave it in tact .
"Would not have been brutally killed by Jewish gangsters the destruction would have been prevented."
So again it was the Jews at fault. Rome was the legitimate occupying force who had the absolute right to oppress Judea as it pleased with vicious rulers and intolerable taxes. Just like the Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum who put the guilt of the holocaust squarely on the Zionists.
My Friend Rome was occupying the entire world at the time no one dreamed of freeing themselves. True the Roman ruler Floras was brutal & corrupt but the war brought about the killing of a million hundred thousand Jews plus hundreds of thousands of prisoners. It was entirely preventable. And btw there is some validaty to R' Yoelishes claims although his claiming the Zionist are responsible for the 6 million was wishfull thinking on his part.
Today we still face… lack of responsible moderate leaders."
Who needs leaders anyway? I don't want a leader of any kind. What am I? Conscripted in the force? For God's sake, I'm my own leader.
As long as your are the sole leader of your entire blog things will be fine. (and that only till your wife finds out... forgive me) but for people to come togather and act leadership is needed. And crazy leaders can turn everyone into animels. Like Hitler ane Kim Yung Ill.
August 7, 2008 10:20 AM
Renaissance said...
Velvel,
I guess you are right on all counts; It's just that I was moody last night.
August 7, 2008 10:37 AM
shlomohamelech said...
I could care less of what you write, I just wanted you to clarify the fact that your blog should not be taken seriously.
August 7, 2008 12:59 PM
Renaissance said...
You have successfully clarified the fact. Blog will not be taken seriously.
August 7, 2008 1:10 PM
Hoezentragerin said...
"Just like the Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum who put the guilt of the holocaust squarely on the Zionists".
I never understood his reasoning. He and his followers also claimed that the Zionist used the holocaust as a way to garner world pity, which ultimately lead to the establishment of the Jewish state.
If that is the case, God punished the Zionist by rewarding them.
August 7, 2008 2:57 PM
gevezener illuy said...
מי אנכי להכניס ראשי בין ההרים הרמים
But i think renaissance read the Hebrew book of yoisifun, which was written as a divrei hayomin. And includes multitudes of Greek nonsense on Alexander the great.
(Not that I have a obsession with yaavetz, but he already points it out and claims it was forged. but he also claimed that the moreh is a forgery, so...)
While velvel read "milchemes hayehudim", which is a translation of what he wrote in greek on the jewish war, and the events that led to it.
But one thing is sure; he is as biased and subjective as a author can be. While he might be reliable, when it comes to recounting facts that were known in his time. I dont think he can be trusted on anything beyond that, including what led to these known facts to happen.
True patriot?!?! He writes with such pride on herods accomplishments. the cities and temples he built for the Greeks and Romans, how he sponsored the Greek Olympics and built ports for so many cities. but fails to mention where this money came from. the heavy taxes that were levied on judea to benefit herods show-offs. its only mentioned fleetingly in his recount of the power struggle after herod died. in the Jewish petition to Caesar to abolish the monarchy and turn Judea into a roman protectorate.
His own account of the time he was military governor of the Galilee region, is of a brutal greedy warlord. Who needs a body guard of 600, and tortures tiberians who come to peacefully beseech him for additional wartime funds.
this is much more than just a elitist. i look at him as much more as a political opportunist. Trying to use the political upheaval to his own benefit. And manipulating the facts in his books according to the audience.
August 7, 2008 5:39 PM
velvel chusid said...
GI, I also wondred if our host read the Yosifin, which is a bundle of balonies.
On Josephus we can argue all day on his real intentions, he is very sly in his writing. Bear in mind he wrote it in Rome so he needed to be carefull I'd guess.
August 8, 2008 10:55 AM
velvel chusid said...
Btw I forgot to point out Yosifin was not written (Yosef Ben Gurion he cals himself there) by the originel Jesephus Ben Mattesyahu. But by a Jew in the ninth century who wanted to make some money.
August 8, 2008 10:58 AM
The Chief said...
Ren,
The notion that a meaty meal is celebratory... is outdated."
The entire system is outdated. We live with primitive fanatical guidlines.
August 8, 2008 5:15 PM
Once upon a time, in a far away land, a white-and-blue-marble structure stretched tall on the summit of Temple Mount. This most cherished shrine in Judea was built by its most despised ruler, Herod. The temple was the last fort defended by righteous and wicked alike, and the temple was the site where the blood of the best of Judea was spilled in a bitter war; a war waged against the most formidable empire, a hopeless war destined for defeat from its onset, a war fought with heroism to preserve the values of Judea, a war fought with loyalty to honor His holy name, and a war fought in rebellion against the fierce opposition from Torah leaders.
Hundreds of thousands were slaughtered, Jerusalem obliterated, and the temple incinerated. Hence forth, the situation only deteriorated for Jews living in the Holy Land. The Romans destructed more cities, banned the study of Torah and the observation of the commandments, and brutally executed ten of the greatest sages. With every passing decade conditions got worse and the population dwindled, until only a handful remained in Judea. From that time on, Jews have had no official homeland, and were constantly expelled to new places, while leaving the old places drenched in blood and tears.
Although the Torah leaders detested the Romans and labeled them the Wicked Kingdom, and although Rabbi Simon almost paid with his life for making accusation as harsh as stating the underlying reason why the Romans built bridges is to collect tolls, the pious sages did not blame Rome for their troubles, but the sins of Judea.
It all started when some schlimazel dialed the wrong number, but the mistakenly called party insisted on striking up a conversation. When the caller hung up on him, he reported to the police who opened an investigation. The prosecution worked on a strategy to put the community to a test on a hot-button issue. The board decided to act politically correct, but one holier-than-thou Halachaist convinced the jury to stick to its principles. The moral of the story is that Jews should not sponsor free hatred and should never ever dial a wrong number.
In mourning of those horrific events, the ninth day of the Hebrew lunar-month Av is declared a fast, and the week leading to that day is declared a lamentation. One way specified by Halacha as expressing grief is a meatless diet. In my opinion, the notion that a meaty meal is celebratory is outdated, and the denial of a nutritious-chicken dinner for children is fanatic.
posted by Renaissance at 9:05 PM on Aug 5, 2008
gevezener illuy said...
but whats the picture?
August 6, 2008 9:40 AM
jewish philosopher said...
A low calorie veggie diet probably won't hurt for one week. ;-)
August 6, 2008 11:29 AM
Hoezentragerin said...
Renaissance,
Why do I get the impression that you copied and pasted this post out of King James version of the bible? I'm just not sure if it's from Mathews, Luke, or John? :)
August 6, 2008 1:49 PM
velvel chusid said...
Nice post. Reading the eye witness account of Josephus on the Jewish uprising against the Romans we learn that the events leading up to the destruction of the Jewish land were a combination of Jewish zealotry, Jews who would rather die than seeing the Temple fall into roman hands. Coupled with a lack of leadership, bands of thugs took matters in their own hands, while the responsible leaders who warned that the uprising has no chance were ignored or killed.
Josephus speculates that if Chananya the Cohen Godel would not have been brutally killed by Jewish gangstars the destruction would have been prevented.
I think today we still face the same dangers Zealotry and lack of responsible moderate leaders. So when we sit on the floor and mourn I think we can mourn the continuous never ended destruction.
August 6, 2008 1:54 PM
shlomohamelech said...
Is this about Hisdism?
August 6, 2008 2:28 PM
Renaissance said...
GI,
“But what’s the picture?”
It's not a picture; it's a cartoon. And to state the obvious, it depicts a lion giving the menu to its cubs.
HT,
"Why do I get the impression that you copied and pasted this post out of King James’ version of the bible? I'm just not sure if it's from Mathew, Luke, or John?”
You are unsure what book, but sure that it’s King James’ translation.
Velvel,
“Nice post”
Thanks; you're the only one who afforded that.
“Reading the eye witness account of Josephus…”
Flavius Josephus was more naïve than the average unwashed-medieval serf to believe in, and to record about, all the mythological non-sense the ancients attributed to Alexander the Great. What makes this person so super-credulous anyway? Was he awarded a Pulitzer? I will take his account of the factual events, but disregard the analytical cause and effect. Clearly, he had an agenda, and certainly he was a biased-subjective journalist.
“Jews who would rather die than seeing the Temple fall into roman hands”
So the Jihad was a consequence of the belief that a victorious Rome will burn the temple? This is not how Josephus tells the story; he claims that Titus had no choice but bring the temple down as the warriors fortified there.
“Would not have been brutally killed by Jewish gangsters the destruction would have been prevented.”
So again it was the Jews at fault. Rome was the legitimate occupying force who had the absolute right to oppress Judea as it pleased with vicious rulers and intolerable taxes. Just like the Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum who put the guilt of the holocaust squarely on the Zionists.
“Today we still face… lack of responsible moderate leaders.”
Who needs leaders anyway? I don’t want a leader of any kind. What am I? Conscripted in the force? For God’s sake, I’m my own leader.
King Solomon,
This is my blog, and here I’ll decide on what topic to post and what position to take. If you feel the contents and tone of this post doesn’t fit in the motive of this blog, then read my introduction.
August 6, 2008 10:49 PM
velvel chusid said...
Let me clerify, and it's "Inune D'yoma"
"Flavius Josephus was more naïve than the average unwashed-medieval serf to believe in, and to record about, all the mythological non-sense the ancients attributed to Alexander the Great"
Josephus' accounts were proven to be remarkably accurate by historians and archaeologists.
In his book The Jewish war he comes across as far from naive. But shrewd and sly. I cant recall any nonsense in the book. your qutes on Alexander is not there.
What makes this person so super-credulous anyway? Was he awarded a Pulitzer? I will take his account of the factual events, but disregard the analytical cause and effect. Clearly, he had an agenda, and certainly he was a biased-subjective journalist."
He was born and raised in Jerusalem and he was General at Yudfas who held on an heroic defence against the Roman machine for 47 days. He was a true patriot. True he was an elitist out of touch with the sufferings of the poor population. But his blaming the war on irresponsible hot heads who fantasized of beating the Roman army is a legitimate one. This was the view of the senior leadership on Jerusalem at the time, even not from the Perushim and we all know R' Yochnen ben Zakai's position.
"Jews who would rather die than seeing the Temple fall into roman hands"
So the Jihad was a consequence of the belief that a victorious Rome will burn the temple? This is not how Josephus tells the story; he claims that Titus had no choice but bring the temple down as the warriors fortified there.
Again you need to read him. When the city was surrounded and there was no chance of winning the battle, rather then surrender and save the city the war turned into a Jihadic frenzy of let us rather die than seeing the temple into strangers hands. Josephus claims the actual burning of the temple was a mistake of an irresponsible solder Titus would rather leave it in tact .
"Would not have been brutally killed by Jewish gangsters the destruction would have been prevented."
So again it was the Jews at fault. Rome was the legitimate occupying force who had the absolute right to oppress Judea as it pleased with vicious rulers and intolerable taxes. Just like the Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum who put the guilt of the holocaust squarely on the Zionists.
My Friend Rome was occupying the entire world at the time no one dreamed of freeing themselves. True the Roman ruler Floras was brutal & corrupt but the war brought about the killing of a million hundred thousand Jews plus hundreds of thousands of prisoners. It was entirely preventable. And btw there is some validaty to R' Yoelishes claims although his claiming the Zionist are responsible for the 6 million was wishfull thinking on his part.
Today we still face… lack of responsible moderate leaders."
Who needs leaders anyway? I don't want a leader of any kind. What am I? Conscripted in the force? For God's sake, I'm my own leader.
As long as your are the sole leader of your entire blog things will be fine. (and that only till your wife finds out... forgive me) but for people to come togather and act leadership is needed. And crazy leaders can turn everyone into animels. Like Hitler ane Kim Yung Ill.
August 7, 2008 10:20 AM
Renaissance said...
Velvel,
I guess you are right on all counts; It's just that I was moody last night.
August 7, 2008 10:37 AM
shlomohamelech said...
I could care less of what you write, I just wanted you to clarify the fact that your blog should not be taken seriously.
August 7, 2008 12:59 PM
Renaissance said...
You have successfully clarified the fact. Blog will not be taken seriously.
August 7, 2008 1:10 PM
Hoezentragerin said...
"Just like the Rabbi Joel Teitelbaum who put the guilt of the holocaust squarely on the Zionists".
I never understood his reasoning. He and his followers also claimed that the Zionist used the holocaust as a way to garner world pity, which ultimately lead to the establishment of the Jewish state.
If that is the case, God punished the Zionist by rewarding them.
August 7, 2008 2:57 PM
gevezener illuy said...
מי אנכי להכניס ראשי בין ההרים הרמים
But i think renaissance read the Hebrew book of yoisifun, which was written as a divrei hayomin. And includes multitudes of Greek nonsense on Alexander the great.
(Not that I have a obsession with yaavetz, but he already points it out and claims it was forged. but he also claimed that the moreh is a forgery, so...)
While velvel read "milchemes hayehudim", which is a translation of what he wrote in greek on the jewish war, and the events that led to it.
But one thing is sure; he is as biased and subjective as a author can be. While he might be reliable, when it comes to recounting facts that were known in his time. I dont think he can be trusted on anything beyond that, including what led to these known facts to happen.
True patriot?!?! He writes with such pride on herods accomplishments. the cities and temples he built for the Greeks and Romans, how he sponsored the Greek Olympics and built ports for so many cities. but fails to mention where this money came from. the heavy taxes that were levied on judea to benefit herods show-offs. its only mentioned fleetingly in his recount of the power struggle after herod died. in the Jewish petition to Caesar to abolish the monarchy and turn Judea into a roman protectorate.
His own account of the time he was military governor of the Galilee region, is of a brutal greedy warlord. Who needs a body guard of 600, and tortures tiberians who come to peacefully beseech him for additional wartime funds.
this is much more than just a elitist. i look at him as much more as a political opportunist. Trying to use the political upheaval to his own benefit. And manipulating the facts in his books according to the audience.
August 7, 2008 5:39 PM
velvel chusid said...
GI, I also wondred if our host read the Yosifin, which is a bundle of balonies.
On Josephus we can argue all day on his real intentions, he is very sly in his writing. Bear in mind he wrote it in Rome so he needed to be carefull I'd guess.
August 8, 2008 10:55 AM
velvel chusid said...
Btw I forgot to point out Yosifin was not written (Yosef Ben Gurion he cals himself there) by the originel Jesephus Ben Mattesyahu. But by a Jew in the ninth century who wanted to make some money.
August 8, 2008 10:58 AM
The Chief said...
Ren,
The notion that a meaty meal is celebratory... is outdated."
The entire system is outdated. We live with primitive fanatical guidlines.
August 8, 2008 5:15 PM
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